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iDempiere and ADempiere (Personal opinion from Carlos)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:11 am
by globalqss
Somebody asked me:

Hello Carlos, how are you? I hope everything is fine. I'm writing to you because I would like to know if you will run for the election of the new Community Governance in August or you have definitively moved forward from the ADempiere project. I'm asking this because here in the (country_withheld) community we are discussing about the different options, if the two projects will not merge in the near future we must decide whether to support both or just one. I know that everything is subject to change but knowing your intention is of great value for us. Of course I will not disclose any confidential information you would like to share with me. Regards, (name_withheld)

I think this is a public concern and because of that the answer must be public, so here we go:

Hi, thanks for asking, I think there are different concerns on Adempiere project, one is community, second is developers, and third is implementors/businesses. Each concern requires different attention, and I think Adempiere failed when the businesses took the project, my thinking is:

- community management, I would promote red1 to do that, focused on community fostering, this is a non-technical approach but more like encourage participation, getting sponsorship, coordinating community efforts, etc

- developers, this is the technical side and I'm all for the decentralized environment that we created on iDempiere, so here my answer is clear, I won't run for a PMC or any technical position, simply because I think that's not necessary, it was a failed approach, decentralized approach is showing to be better

- businesses, I think businesses must be encouraged to use and brand themselves not using the adempiere/idempiere name (I mean, probably it can be used as a suffix or prefix previous evaluation, but you must not use it unfairly like the "adempiere business consultants" did). The problem in adempiere is that businesses became "concerned" about the brand because they didn't promote their own, and then they thought the solution to all the problems was to take the brand, but in the process they killed the community and the technical part of the project.

So, summarizing: no, I won't accept any position, my only hope is to restore the COMMUNITY status of the project (hopefully led by red1) and encourage businesses to do what they must do (promote their own business brand and leave the adempiere brand to community as it was initially intended).

My plan is to keep developing iDempiere, if iDempiere can be promoted as part of the Adempiere project or not must be defined by community, not by a bunch of egocentric business people. But I'm not too worried about that, iDempiere has a long life with or without adempiere promotion.


Carlos Ruiz

Re: iDempiere and ADempiere (Personal opinion from Carlos)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:07 am
by red1
This email was revealed to me by Carlos and i kindly requested him that he answer it openly in line with our long standing tradition of 'Information is Free' but 'People are Not' so the name and country are withheld.

It is interesting that this letter is written to him instead of me shows how important the source-code maintainer, reviewer and contributor is above everyone else. This serves as something for us all to reflect on. When the water-hole is finally protected, or left to or placed under the right person's authority, people will realise who is most important in an Open Source Software project.

Even though that person is labelled with many names and his words considered noise and some people close their ears when he speaks. But listening to him here is even more interesting. Carlos has never shown interest in taking the limelight or credit for what he does not do or have time to do. He is willing to acknowledge that community work of uniting everyone is important and it is other person's domain. He is willing to work hand in hand but he has highest regard for rules and principles.

Perhaps the person who wrote the letter is more wiser than all of us. He knows that I cannot really unite the community or that is no longer important. Nevertheless it is the only duty left for me to do.

I have mellowed over the years in that i no longer fight well. I rather lose well. We should agree to disagree and maintain high respect. I follow Carlos confidence that iDempiere will live long. Many of us want to hear that. I know with such good words, most will now choose iDempiere above ADempiere.

If one more phrase i can add to 'Contributors are Priceless - You have to Be' is 'Community is Supreme - You shall soon See'.

(For non-English readers, the word 'Supreme' here does not mean power but the been the right arbiter or judge of what is right, and their will reveal itself over time and it is organic as well as harmonious. I am also referring to the much wider community beyond our AD.eV control over a few persons. The community i traveled is very wide, diverse, powerful, sincere, determined and indeed supreme. I strongly recommend meeting the people in person so that we can discount if that person is sincere or not. I also prefer to be more quieter nowadays as i realised people may feel intimidated or patronised which they do not like to be. So you will really not find me over at the SourceForge forums. Not even to stand for August elections. Without Carlos, well not to make a phrase out of it but i can say "Without the top guy, we got nothing". ).

Re: iDempiere and ADempiere (Personal opinion from Carlos)

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:21 am
by red1
Tokyo1.jpg (69.29 KiB) Viewed 11673 times

Indeed we are seeing these assumptions proven today. Here i am writing to you from Tokyo, Japan where we have a successful week meeting among members of ADempiere Japan User Group (ADJUG). Our project is also highlighted locally ... 7/?top_tl1.

I chatted with Carlos a few days ago if the ADempiere project is conducting elections for a new leadership mandate and the answer is negative. Should we do something about it? Carlos has this to say:
[06:53am] CarlosRuiz: seriously, alive???
[06:53am] CarlosRuiz: -> Issues: 30 Day Summary -> Issues: 2 created and 0 resolved
[06:53am] CarlosRuiz: -> Issues: 30 Day Summary -> Issues: 47 created and 69 resolved
[06:54am] CarlosRuiz: -> 30 Day Summary -> 14 Commits / 3 Contributors
[06:54am] CarlosRuiz: -> 30 Day Summary -> 142 Commits / 11 Contributors including 4 new contributors

This chat text is what i shown the user group here in Japan so that they know of how the Bazaar concept works in anarchic fashion even without Cathedral support.
Our community now knows that the iDempiere GitHub approach is sustaining itself organically and healthily.

I become more immersed in the shy nature but wisdom here in Japan. After a tea ceremony few days ago, the Tea Master presented us with a written caption stating 4 oriental characters: Harmony, Respect, Purity, Tranquility.
These principles are good to adopt and with that, we proceed as such. There be no war, only victory.

4principles.jpg (56.79 KiB) Viewed 11673 times

Re: iDempiere and ADempiere (Personal opinion from Carlos)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:38 pm
by PeanutBlake
Hi Red1,

Good news from Japan :-)
by the way, I often face the questions from Chinese community members, would you tell me some news?
Question 1: When will the iDempiere be released?
Question 2: How about the manufacturing function for iDempiere? as we see the manufacturing is simple in


Best Regards

Peanut Blake

Re: iDempiere and ADempiere (Personal opinion from Carlos)

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:27 am
by red1
Carlos Ruiz answered this question in his weekly chat sessions so you can read from there. What i know is that version 1.0 is set for Early 2013. However i am upgrading the installer again and will do an automatic update / backup / restore option configuration into it soon. That means with this installer you can always update your iDempiere without much manual steps.

I think it is Adaxa (Australia) contribution of 'Light Manufacturing' that is considered by Carlos for maintenance into the application. Libero Mfg is not maintained but it can be just another 3rd party plugin component as part of the beauty of the OSGi framework.

It be good you come into the #iDempiere chat session to ask further.

Re: iDempiere and ADempiere (Personal opinion from Carlos)

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:32 am
by red1
Well, we told you so: ... ic/5861317

A simple short question, "Do we still have a LEGITIMATE CC"? to which, of all answers, Colin Rooney replied, "There is a lot of questions there!" and started another amazing example of self immolation.

<snip></snip> Not good to rant now. iDempiere is keeeping us busy and we need not repeat what we concluded long ago.

Peace to the community. iDempiere lives on.

Re: iDempiere and ADempiere (Personal opinion from Carlos)

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:47 pm
by globalqss
I liked this recent reading, totally applicable to the flame call from Colin (I mean, the recycled accusation about my measures to protect the project from ABC):

"Don't explain. Your friends do not need it, and your enemies will not believe you" ... and stupids will not understand.