Vote on Asking SourceForge to Revert Admin Rights

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Forum rules
There will be no censorship here. There is no government here. There is only freedom.

Should We Write to SourceForge.net about our Admin Rights Removal?

Yes, restore Red1's admin rights, remove the rest
2
17%
Yes, restore Red1's admin rights, not remove the rest
1
8%
No, it is better at the present status quo
1
8%
We wait for August Citizens Elections to Vote to Restore Leadership.
7
58%
Open Forum Voting Now (voters must prove identity)
1
8%
 
Total votes : 12

Vote on Asking SourceForge to Revert Admin Rights

Postby red1 » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:44 pm

When i was in Brazil http://forum.kenos.com.br/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=810, they told me of the same problem they have that we have in main ADempiere project. One active admin cum committer but always breaks trunk without notice removed the others' more stable administrators' rights. They then wrote to SourceForge.net Admin giving the trail of events and the community's show of support for a revert to the stable trunk administrator as well as remove the rights of the previous admin.

Is this something that we should do? Or should we wait until August elections?
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Re: Vote on Asking SourceForge to Revert Admin Rights

Postby red1 » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:10 pm

(Carlos email today)
Thanks Redhuan,

I would like to add this is the actual roadmap for iDempiere project, tagged to be released at Q1-2013
http://jira.idempiere.com/secure/IssueN ... stId=10201

Things are evolving really well, I think slowly the "community around iDempiere" (as Redhuan called it) is understanding how decentralized approach works.
I would say this is the community to brag about:
164 members of JIRA
107 members of idempiere google groups (44 for the spanish group)
64 followers on bitbucket

This project doesn't need elections, neither CC, neither PMC, neither central bodies to take decisions, neither business people to shut up flames, neither marketing people trying to force developers to hide bugs.
Having said that - Heng Sin and I make decisions about the iDempiere repository at bitbucket as the maintainers of such repository. But of course we don't make decisions on all the forks around.
At this moment iDempiere has 12 forks and the transition version (globalqss361) has 10 forks.

People working on a fork that wants something on our maintained repository can ask us for peer review - that's what I mostly do on weekly wednesday meetings.

IMHO - as I already said Redhuan - adempiere project is dead - maybe better described like a zombie :-)
Statistics just prove that, you can check by yourselves:

http://www.ohloh.net/p/iDempiere
30 Day Summary Sep 8 — Oct 8 -> 102 Commits - 9 Contributors including 2 new contributors
12 Month Summary Oct 8 — Oct 8 -> 733 Commits Up +376 (64.384%) from previous 12 months

http://www.ohloh.net/p/adempiere
30 Day Summary Sep 12 — Oct 12 -> 24 Commits - 4 Contributors
12 Month Summary Oct 12 — Oct 12 -> 378 Commits Down -180 (-27.735%) from previous 12 months

What about tickets?
http://jira.idempiere.com/browse/IDEMPIERE
Issues: 30 Day Summary -> 33 created and 29 resolved

https://adempiere.atlassian.net/browse/ADEMPIERE
Issues: 30 Day Summary -> Issues: 9 created and 2 resolved
And here I'm pretty sure that most of the movement on this JIRA is caused by LBR, not by Adempiere.


:-) So, IMHO, let's face it, bye bye Adempiere. They just have a really poor "community governance" without code.
Sooner or later they'll be forced to copy or move to iDempiere (if they're not copying already on their own private forks).

Welcome to iDempiere, a real open source decentralized project, where everybody is equal on the equality that allows forking and releasing your own distro.


Regards,

Carlos Ruiz


On 12/10/12 18:51, red1 wrote:
> Hi <Name withheld>,
> Well, you should know very well the explosive nature of this subject if we are to show up there and pose some ideas or questions. I myself am still lost of what kind of community governance and project roadmap thinking they have that will change the status quo. They are quite unlike the previous PMC whom we know will be serious about the questions you have. And the proof of it is that Carlos still seriously work on the trackers here at jira.idempiere.com as a real technical open source guru should.
>
> I think my stand or our stand still stands - we work away from the main adempiere scene and in the idempiere project, to allow sure growth and avoid destructive flames. In my recent visit to Japan the iDempiere approach gain excitement and immediate recognition as Japanese are technical minded.

> Talking about OSGi and how Carlos and Hengsin work as well as about LBR by Kenos of been the best example of a country's localization, were my highlights during the conference in Tokyo. You people and what and how you do things are the only real stuff to talk about and the present non governance in AD.eV is an anti-climax, a real bump in our project.
>
> So i suggest we continue and discuss our own roadmaps, review our own code, move solidly into iDempiere and publish independently but associated to each other under one landing page wiki at http://www.idempiere.com. This also give better and clearer branding to your own company. From there on, our content must be technical and no longer political. I know you guys personally to be very contributive and community material.
>
> I just completed an upgrade of the iDempiere Installer with an Upgrade Assistant viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1629&p=8104#p8104
> and since yesterday reading up on how HengSin is using the Eclipse way of updating code in the project via p2 - http://wiki.eclipse.org/Equinox_p2_Getting_Started which will bring us light years ahead from where we were. This is really very complex and a technical roadmap for me myself to digest, and so i must focus and spend lots of time and effort on it.
>
> I think such a focus and consolidation of our time and effort can bring about fast change as we can see how Carlos, Hengsin and their silent focus has attracted their own community around them as can be seen in the jira membership and tracker commits authors. This is how a real open source project will grow. I am really optimistic that with your participation there we will soon set a clear path for the whole ADempiere community to follow.
>
> You are most welcome to discuss more directly with Carlos if need be or in http://www.red1.org/adempiere forum or in our #idempiere chatroom during Wednesday meetings (if Carlos is OK with this).
>
> I am happy of your email here which is the only one so far from the community and this proves one thing in my mind - there are very few serious people that makes this project grows this far.
>
> Kind Regards
> red1
>
> On 10/13/12 2:03 AM, <Name withheld> wrote:
>> Hi Red1,
>>
>> I hope you are fine, how was your trip to Japan?
>>
>> I want to know if you are planning anything to creating or joining a CC Team. What are your plans to Adempiere project?
>>
>> I have nothing against the current team, but I think that the CC needs to be more active to keep the project health and organized. For now the current team only moderates the community instead of have a role of government. The way it's currently managed there are some problems if you look to the big picture, you have some people working in separated topics in the Functional Team and Technical Team, but what this project really needs is a well detailed roadmap, witch is impossible to achieve if you have people working in their needs instead of project needs.
>>
>> I'm writing because of the below, so I don't have time to discuss with <Name withheld>, but I think he shares the same idea.
>> https://sourceforge.net/projects/adempi ... ic/6014280
>>
>> Regards,
>> --
><Name withheld>
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Re: Vote on Asking SourceForge to Revert Admin Rights

Postby red1 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:43 pm

I replied another email today:
Hi <name withheld>,
I was afraid someday, someone out there will say these brave sounding words to try to stir me into action. :) And that day is today. I am flattered and honoured and at first i did not intend to response. But more people will write so its better i put forth a response for others to know too.

Firstly all i can say about 'turning my ship away' is yes and no.
Yes, it may seem so, that someone who refused to fight after a long battle must either have lost or have lost. Actually i have analysed the past fightings and must admit there are shortcomings in fighting all the time.
But No, because i have never given up hope. If i have (1) I wouldn't have answered your email. (2) I would not have revived my forum and support the other community channels around iDempiere. (3) I would not have travelled far and wide actively campaigning for the cause of the priceless contributors. (4) we wouldn't be so busy building up this ship, or ships if you consider the new bitbucket of forks that is more of an ocean rather than a single ship.

In fact i think this is the clear path of victory. The gentlemen left in AD.eV has lost both moral and project upper hand. The last post i made about the statistics is showing they as the sinking ship, and i am sad. We are fine, and doing fine and in fact has the right community with us. So permit them their pride to sink. For good riddance.

Bear in mind that Carlos and me still act as trustees holding the main domains and we have held on record without abuse since September 2006, thus legally it is difficult for any group after that date to claim we are illegitimate. We have a whole big project result to show for and not them.

With such domains we can protect the assets from total destruction in any final analysis. At least no one can ever sell these rights to some commercial entity which is our greatest and ultimate fear. Our impasse between both sides has created at least a stalemate which to me is better than going wholesale to the other side. Now that side in in decay clear and simple.

If we do not bother with their inaction, or the way they changed the eleciton rules and ruling conventions, then they are further buried in self-paralysis and pasivity, with no real contributors nor active citizens on their side. We are now stronger than last year for a battle but must we fight just because we can win? Why not wait and have an even more complete victory, without firing a single shot?

Though stubborn i may sound here, i still count on voices and members like you to continue giving us this moral support and confidence under this ship with its new sails and direction. Help us on a good technical growth of this project and eventually improve the culture of respect for real work and not big words. That is meritocracy and always the same 3 line mantra - contributors are priceless, you have to be.

I give you my firm assurance. The bazaar and its flag or brand is alright. Do not take my word for it. Just wait and see.

red1


On 10/15/12 7:16 PM, <name withheld> wrote:
> Hi red1,
> I hope you have had a fruitful trip across the adempiere
> community and made some good friends that will help advance
> the opensource ERP agenda. As you may be aware, we have been
> able to
> get the CC leadership to start the electioneering process to
> elect new CC members. It seems to me that Carlos and your
> good self
> have abandoned the project and are unwilling to participate
> in this process as i have gleened from reading your forums.
> I would like to remind you
> that you fought a war to restore the community with
> overwhelming support from a dormant community which was
> awakened at the time to make thier voice heard. Subsequently
> community voted to wait for
> the term of the current CC to end before any further action
> is taken to win this war. It seems to me that things have
> changed, u\'ve had a change of affection and you are no
> longer interested
> in victory but has turned your ships away just when we were
> about to get what we really wanted. Just when the \"enemy\"
> was overwhelmed and had silently accepted defeat, creating a
> vacuum in the
>
> process.
> I urge you not to quit this time around ALSO, just like you
> quit on the other accasions and as a result \"failed\" the
> community. I urge that you take steps to honor the community
> voice,
> the community vote that said action should be taken after
> the expiry of term of the current CC.
> It is ok to pursue IDempiere since we all believe it is the
> future, but you cant just leave without finishing what you
> started, you cant just leave without honoring the voice of
> the community
> which put their faith in you. The process for election is
> between 12 and 28 oct 2012, i believe that
> this is an opportunity to right some of the wrongs that have
> been done to the project.
> Even if you are not interested in a position, you can be
> involved in the process so we choose a leadership that will
> be progressive.
> For now, adempiere is the production system the community
> depends on, we need to make sure the brand does not
> diminish, we need to make sure that we dont start all over
> because we allow others to
>
> take the spoils they dont deserve. There are some fair
> minded individuals who you can urge to step up to coordinate
> things.
> I know how you and Carlos and Hengsin have contributed to
> the project, but its not finished, there\'s a community to
> rescue.....
> Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase, dont let this opportunity pass us by.
> It will be another two years of moving backward.
>
> <name withheld>
>
> --
> This message was sent to your SourceForge.net email alias via the web mail form. You may reply to this message directly, or via https://sourceforge.net/sendmessage.php?touser=<withheld>
> To update your email alias preferences, please visit https://sourceforge.net/account
>
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Re: Vote on Asking SourceForge to Revert Admin Rights

Postby red1 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:44 am

Xolali, (referring to your SF posting) i prefer to post a reply here so as not to start another flame. But this is my right to bring to air.

Xolali
I like to start the discourse, but it will be about outstanding pending issues that were not addressed:
0. Removal of my admin rights without due democratic process.
1. Citizens who we proposed before but are not included in the list so they cannot vote. We are unclear who has final say as the present team declared themselves to be leaderless to avoid anyone been called to account.
2. The role of the iDempiere project. Certainly a banned word here. Very misunderstood and feared.
3. The invisible meetings that have no minutes and thus not open to further discourse
4. The new manner in which governance is 'you are with us or against us' where if you are with them then you must attend their secret meetings and 'work with them'.
5. Request for peer review of unreviewed code with misplacing of credit is shot down with damaging official letters to FSF/ZK vendor claiming us to be in the wrong.
6. Accusations of wrongful conduct goes one-sided. If this side makes an 'allegation' we are called to defend. But if that side makes one, no evidence needed.
7. Deletion of threads that questioned their judgements that are important to the health of this project.
8. Of course the very critical SF public voting and support to the call of no-confidence and request for return of old PMC last year which was shot down as 'illegal public demonstration'.
9. There is some more pending questions such as the reason why the present Chair of AD.eV refused numerous times to meet me when i made myself available quite right up to his residence in Bonn, Germany.

This may sound political but isn't that what elections and governance is about? To review and address how a previous administration may have gone wrong and why a new or previous one is better? I am not advertising for a return. I hope a new or even the present team continue governing but our voices must be heard where the above are civilly and democratically resolved.

Returning the mandate from the community is a democratic process where other voices are considered. But the tone there is not even right. One of them even said 'present situation can continue as all is peaceful'. They are not concerned about the real issue - growth of both project and community. Today clearly there is neither there. And we proven that we are not the issue here. You can see for yourself later when you ask them each one above. Or you can pose your own issues. So please do not take my word for it. :)

Kind regards
Citizen 1


p/s Even if we win the elections and take over, there will be the same old instigation:
1. Why do we favour heavily the top contributors? Why do we even practice meritocracy above a single vote of dissent?
2. Why do we open up everything?
3. Why do we not give room to commercial interests?
4. Why do we not allow code hiding?
5. Why do we revert or stop unstable and unreviewed or wrongly declared code?
5. Why do we not delete threads that questioned authority?

Clearly there are two camps here. I am not saying the other camp is wrong. But this is not a commercial project. It is a community project. If follows the 'bazaar' as in Cathedral and The Bazaar as written by Eric Raymond which follows the Linus Torvalds model.

So far that model is working brilliantly here. So sad that it is called with another new name iDempiere. Bear in mind that in this new project i do not own the domains nor appear as leader. That has never been my wish nor a condition of a healthy FOSS project. People who still do not understand this got to read again and again Richard Stallman's writings, FSF policy and even GPL license properly.

But if you have no free time to read, then just read these three words, "Freedom of Choice".
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Re: Vote on Asking SourceForge to Revert Admin Rights

Postby red1 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:54 am

Hello red1,

I wanted to do some work and reading to catch up with the idempiere development before doing my next steps and decide my next actions. But your mail invites me to give you my standpoint *now*. Please correct me if I missed a part of the discussion.

I am a bit surprised that you still deal with this issue. It seems that idempiere as a project works good for me. It is fun to play with OSGI bundles and I feel that Carlos does a good job for code quality. So there is no desperately need to change something (for me).

On the other side all your arguments are the truth and there are enough reasons to be upset about the situation. They told me clearly that they do not want me to take part in their project. This all is very bad for the adempiere project but - from my personal view - who cares?!?

So my question to you is: Who cares?!?

Do you care?

IF you care you should go for the voting, you should fight an election campaign, you should have a program what you would change and you should be willing to do all that yourself. When I asked you last time you said you do not want to become the "CC" and you want others to do it. You do not want to fight anymore. That will not work both. You personally are the leader for so many people and you have to take your responsibility to lead them (if you want it really). Noone else than you can do this.

If you really care you should go and take over the evil empire. If you do not care you should shut up and lead us to the idempiere release.

So my question is: Does your mail mean that you care? Will you take over the evil empire? Will you publish your application and open the battle?

If this is your plan I am your knight. ;-)
I will fight every battle my dictator's big plan says.

If not don't be angry if I concentrate on my idempiere installation. I left the adempiere project months ago...

regards,

<name withheld>


Am 17.10.2012 00:25, schrieb red1:
> H<name withheld>
> Are you around? It is time for elections. Wonder if we need to think
> about it. It needs a sober mind first :) I think first issue is whether
> ppl like you are citizens to vote.
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/adempie ... ic/6024532
>
> red1
--
<name withheld>
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Re: Vote on Asking SourceForge to Revert Admin Rights

Postby red1 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:59 am

And Carlos reply, of which i like the last part which i replied in email at the bottom:

I like these <name> advices to Redhuan.
* If you care and want to fight - go ahead with a good plan.
* If not - then we forget about that - and we can stop even mentioning or caring about it :-)

I also liked some words from Redhuan - don't remember where I read but is something like: just allow that zombie to die peacefully :-)

As I told you on skype - last war I offered to go back and work there under certain conditions - but that offer is closed.
So, you cannot promise to bring CarlosRuiz back, I won't.
The only thing that you could rescue there is that adempiere community accepts that iDempiere is the next generation project - and we don't need that - that will be a gain for them - but I feel there's nothing there for us, so up to that "community".

As we have chatted - we already are beyond that - if I'm asked -> I don't care. I'm not interested on "saving" or "sinking" that project - I simply don't care, we are now on a highest level, so I don't know why would we want to go back lower.

I'm sorry for the community that is asking us to fight. But they have a way to go out - just go to iDempiere - why are they attached to that brand?
So, I have the feeling that they just want to battle the name because they constructed all their business around that brand - and that's something that we're preaching not to do with iDempiere (and some people is again repeating same mistake - you see there are some country domains bought by business people, instead of creating and promoting their own brand).

Let's try to do it better in iDempiere.

Regards,

Carlos Ruiz


My reply back to both recipients:
That part Carlos said above strikes me. The majority users are weak because they are not into the code or contributing better. Thus they feel more threatened than us.

Nevertheless we are not been arrogant. We truly did alot. The only way to prove that we are useful is when we are missing in that scene. But still we did not cheat anyone. Carlos gave and is giving alot everyday. There are times i felt ashamed to even ask him anything like others do. I simply solve issues i find on my own. But Carlos still give answers.

That is why i am bit ashamed when people still address me as leader. Truly i am not. Go find another Roman Gladiator soy amigo <name>. :)
But in this project are real warriors. And knowing you, you have to be one too. It is fun, it is empowering, and we can always give to others, and they always give back even as little as a bug report.

Please, please do not send me my armour. *hint* :)

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Re: Vote on Asking SourceForge to Revert Admin Rights

Postby red1 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:35 pm

SourceForge wrote to me,
Red1,

The situation at Adempiere has been brought to our attention at https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/site-support/1744/ and I'm trying to determine whether the intervention of the SourceForge staff is actually required at this time.

Obviously, there's a lot of history that I'm not familiar with, so it's difficult to get the full scope of what's going on. It appears to me that the project moved, by common consent, from a "benevolent dictator" model, to an Apache-style Project Management Committee model, and that, subsequently, that PMC has ceased to represent the will of the community. Is this an accurate representation?

As a long-time Apache guy, it would see that the best solution across the board would be the expansion of that PMC to include all of the project "elders", not the abolishment of the committee. But, again, I'm not intimately familiar with the history of the project.

Is there any way that I can help out? Is there a desire for an external voice to help work through the issues?

--
Rich Bowen :: SourceForge Community Manager
e: rbowen@sourceforge.net
t: @rbowen, @sourceforge
w: sourceforge.net


I will post further mail threads below so that readers can easily follow and form a clear picture what is happening.
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Re: Vote on Asking SourceForge to Revert Admin Rights

Postby red1 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:37 pm

From SF community manager again replying to Carlos Ruiz who first responded. I responded later in next post.

On Nov 29, 2012, at 10:41 AM, Carlos Antonio Ruiz Gomez wrote:

> Thanks Rich, when I try to open the URL https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/site-support/1744/ it just shows an error:
> Error 403 Read access required

Sorry. I thought any authenticated user could see that. Here's the text:

Hi,
I am a member of the open source ERP project Adempiere which is being hosted on sourceforge. This project has won sourceforge awards consistently in past years but recently the project has been derailed by a club of business interests who have ousted the original owners and taken over the project by manipulating our processes. We have an internal structure
for electing leaders but this process has been subverted by the current team which has conducted flawed elections in which a member of the team is the election officer. A player and a referee at the same time. How can that team possibly lose an election. This team has therefore imposed themselves on the dying community and they are derailing progress to favour their own commercial business interest. I am therefore writing so that sourceforge can step in and restore the rights of the original owners of this project in order to revive the community
Please find below threads of evidence
http://sourceforge.net/projects/adempie ... dex/page/1
http://sourceforge.net/projects/adempie ... ic/4820095 VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE
Please let me know which other evidence is needed to proceed with this. The original owners are red1 and globalqss sourceforge users.


>
> If you can mediate on this, I think we could try to set up a tail of the most important events for you.
>
> There is too much there:
> - setup of a pseudo-democracy (allowing vote to supporters and rejecting non-supporters)
> - defamation cases
> - unattended domain abuse
> - really nasty personal attacks
>
> The situation became so critical and insuperable that the top team decided to step aside and form a new project http://www.idempiere.org
> A big part of the community is wanting us to return and regain control (mostly the part that CC is not accepting as citizens to exercise vote or veto power).
>
> Regards,


It seems very strange, and totally contrary to the spirit of Open Source, to exclude the founders of a project from the voting. I have no wish to step in from outside and impose my will, but this seems to be a clear violation of the intent of open development. What do you think they're trying to gain by this?

--
Rich Bowen :: SourceForge Community Manager
e: rbowen@sourceforge.net
t: @rbowen, @sourceforge
w: sourceforge.net
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Re: Vote on Asking SourceForge to Revert Admin Rights

Postby red1 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:40 pm

Here is my first response:
Hi Rich,
Thank you so much for your attention and i am not sure how much you need to know and what is the best mode of action. We always believe in openness and that all sides must be informed if we consider ourselves a FOSS project and not some vested entity. I been scracthing my head this two hours after reading the emails and wondering if this can be acceptable:

1. Hold again an open discusion under the silent watch of SF that it will observe and not interfere to maintain neutrality.
1.2 SF offer to conduct a LimeSurvey or any form of elections and then announce the results.
2. Admin rights be held by winning team for 1 probationary year.

If you prefer in practicing a neutral observer voice, one of us can start the case decently by opening a thread in ADempiere SF asking if there is need to seek open arbitration on behalf of the community with SF for a fair and transparent elections so as to find a more communal based solution rather than the present one sided interpretation of administration. Below i offer a draft.

TOPIC: Request for Fair Elections from SF?
"Dear all,
Can we ask for a neutral 3rd party such as SF to arbitrate and perhaps hold a LimeSurvey elections transparently on behalf of our FOSS project so that the results is acceptable and we move on?
Your thoughts?

Kind regards
<someone else besides the top contenders. There are a number of 'quiet' members who wish to to be civil as such and i am sure they be proud of SF here, irrespective of the outcome. For our side we will take care to appeal to clear objectives of the FOSS project as it was first started>
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Re: Vote on Asking SourceForge to Revert Admin Rights

Postby red1 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:42 pm

Subsequent round and SF's Rich Bowen's reply:
On Nov 29, 2012, at 2:54 PM, red1 wrote:

> There are two sets of thinking in the project. One is 'heh.. i hacked this. What do you think?" The other is, "Oh,, you are scaring my customers away."

Yes. As an open source community manager for a for-profit company, I'm very familiar with this tension between to perspectives. And when it's there, it's crucial that both sides be heard, respectfully, otherwise someone's going to get shut up. It appears that in this case some voices are being silenced.


> During my time, there was no censorship. Even a backdoor was exposed by an Iranian hacker in our face but i was slammed for allowing that to happen which offered a patch anyway. Two prominent members in the community told me in person (when i was in Dublin and then Melbourne) that credit card info was stolen due to that.
> So i read alot of Eric Raymond (tell me if he is a bad influence here) and was foretold that the above was a magic cauldron that bugs become shallow that fast.
> So Rich, this is a never-ending controversy depending which hat you are wearing.

Absolutely. And this is one place where Eric has understood much, from the very beginning, about the tension between freedom and the ability to earn a living.

> Sorry for ranting, cos i suspect you know much more than us been from the Apache project.

I don't suggest that I know more. It's just one perspective. And I don't presume to say that it's the only one. I just wish to help in any way that I can.

--
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Re: Vote on Asking SourceForge to Revert Admin Rights

Postby red1 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:21 am

Is the last elections flawed?
Hi Red :-)

Thanks for including me in your thoughts and plans. For me I've silently left the ADempiere community. I don't share the values of the "leadership". They are not the kind of people that I want to work with. If they have their own kindergarden I'm happy to let them have it as long as they leave me and iDempiere alone.
Enough was enough when I didn't even get to vote for the last elections... I got nothing.

If you manange to get a supervised election with SF I'd be more than happy to support you... but as mentioned, the current leadership in ADempiere needs a playground and I see no point in making their playground our battleground.

I view ADempiere as a sacrificial anode on a ship... and we're sailing on the iDempiere-ship.

We'll see more of eachother in the excellent idempiere project :-)

Best regards
<name withheld>
red1
Site Admin
 
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Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia


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