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From Flames To Fork, Comes Freedom • View topic - Future of IDEMPIERE

Future of IDEMPIERE

Just scream. We know you want to.
Forum rules
There will be no censorship here. There is no government here. There is only freedom.

Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby red1 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:15 pm

THE BOGOTA ANNOUNCEMENT - FINAL EDITION - 11.1.2012

I been here in Bogota with Carlos Ruiz since 4th January, and had a series of meetings on many matters ranging from the war to the issues to the code release of iDempiere. I try to make some brief but important questions or points below which is now final and frozen. Any further updates will be at the bottom of this thread.

BACKGROUND: Carlos has two repos and Heng Sin has one. Carlos repos are ADempiere361 which we refer to as and iDempiere at , which is a clone of . Most agreed that HengSin's iDempiere OSGi completion is the way to go so this is our utmost concern that the path from ADempiere to iDempiere remains intact.

QUESTION: IS ADEMPIERE MIGRATION FROM 361 to IDEMPIERE CLOSED?
1.1 iDempiere bitbucket is public but the 361 is restricted. 361 has moved from Kenai to bitbucket as a private branch (restricted to contributors only).
1.2 Carlos continues to work on the iDempiere bitbucket by reviewing all patches acceptable from direct or indirect sources including ADempiere trackers.
1.3 HengSin has always been public. It is Carlos Ruiz's work that that is in question. So this thread is to work towards a right solution that puts first things first - the code.

QUESTION: WHAT ABOUT CARLOSRUIZ361?
2.1 CarlosRuiz361 will be deprecated to iDempiere. What is in 361 is the migration pack and path to the iDempiere 1.0 release later. Those who follow it will have no problem converting or migrating or upgrading their instances to iDempiere.
2.2 Thus 361 is the ADempiere361 'forking point' to iDempiere.
2.3 The official ADempiere370 release at SourceForge.net/ADempiere has no path to iDempiere. Because no one is working on that here.
2.4 CarlosRuiz361 is restricted to contributors only. Those who have contributed some feature, bug report or fix directly to Carlos Ruiz will be given read access. Carlos will work less on 361 but more on iDempiere as the big jump. 361 will end with the migration path and pack.

QUESTION: WHAT ABOUT HENGSIN'S REPO?
3.1 HengSin's work is cloned by Carlos into his bitbucket repo of iDempiere.
3.2 HengSin wish to follow the GitHub policy of self management and allow his repo to be cloned freely by anyone.
3.3 Eventually Carlos iDempiere and HengSin's synch with each other but there maybe some minute lag or difference due to common peer review lag.

QUESTION: WHAT ABOUT CENTRALISED ID MANAGEMENT?
4. Since this is not well and timely managed by present ADempiere team, Carlos will setup an alternative Centralised ID server which has ID buffer zones that won't conflict with ADempiere IDs and shall last 2 years (which is more than enough as iDempiere production candidate is due to release this year which does not need Centralised ID Management.)

5. Only contributors, reviewers or direct bug trackers of CarlosRuiz361 can ask for a Centralised ID pass from Carlos Ruiz.

QUESTION: WHERE ARE THE TRACKERS?
6. In http://jira.idempiere.com

QUESTION: WHERE DOES THE COMMUNITY GO?
7. http://www.idempiere.com is the landing page to see where else to go for newbies, oldies and business of the day. This is open to contributors opinion. Release announcements will be made there and most here who are involved will be consulted.

8. The RED1 forum remains the zone of freedom - for the newbies, shouting page and unsure stuff - votes or opinion polls. Sourceforge.net/red1 remains as Jenkins QA stack and binary deployment zone.

9. The Googlegroup mailing list of iDempiere is open to public subscription to ask technical or support issues, but idempiere-dev mailing list is for contributors only.

10. SourceForge/iDempiere is also similar to the landing page and will direct the same stated here.

11. There shall be weekly 2 hour meetings (at #idempiere of irc.freenode.net) where Carlos Ruiz or anyone shall facilitate decision making and Q&A related to issues from the trackers or forums. The GMT time suitability is most likely night in Asia, noon in Europe and morning in Bogota.

12. Logs will be published in RED1.org forums or some in future. There are no present wikis planned. Rather we allow anyone to publish in their own blogs or sites. We shall choose which site or page is the best information and link them in the landing pages. The issue is not no wiki but too much disorganised information that is confusing. So there shall be plain simple single pages for community to refer. Also self publishing best protect your brand credit and work merit.

QUESTION: WHAT ABOUT ADEMPIERE?
13. Ask them, perhaps they have more right to speak on this and not us. We are most concerned about a single important future roadmap of iDempiere and cannot focus on conflicts which we did not start. If rights were not harmed for us to contribute this would not have happened.

14. To avoid nasty 61 declarative posts there and some turn it into a war, :) I have appealed to Carlos to avoid appearance and visibility in ADempiere project altogether. I will have to do the same. Any provocation from there can then be ignored. Furthermore, there shall be no commits whatsoever that require any rights in the ADempiere project. Thus any mismanagement of rights will have no impact. Work continue at the above stated repos where the respective owners have complete, absolute, final say over them and thus no conflict can arise. Users will tend to show respect and proper decorum.

QUESTION: WHAT ABOUT THE MAIN DOMAINS?
15. Even though the abused domains declared as transferred were never done, we who never abused them shall figure out a way to surrender them. We won't go under the bus clinging to the property of the public good. Even though we shall go on some rail tracks to pose for a photo just to see if we can hear screams.

16. We shall surrender to foundations that fulfill the rules and practice of source-code maintenance, community trust and confidence. The present ADeV has suffered a severe loss of confidence as the last opinion poll indicated.

17. We are seeking to surrender to alternative foundations setup by the community which we leave to the community to prove to us that which deserve so.

QUESTION: WHY DON'T YOU RETURN TO ADEMPIERE?
18. There are long posts explaining all our positions on so many issues from code review, to trunk destabilization, to citizenship management that was never really addressed by those in charge. They refused to take popular opinion seriously. Nor want to hold official vote on the outstanding issues. Nor does the one in charge wants to meet me, even though i traveled thousands of miles to his place. The rest of the committees does not seem to care of the issues nor able to advice the head who can accuse me freely and yet seems too powerful - untouchable. So we vote with our feet.

QUESTION: ARE YOU A FORK?
19. You should ask ADempiere if it is a fork. I know it is sad you have to change 3 girl-friends before you settle for the 4th but blame the facts of life. So be fair to us. Again, we did not ask for forks, even from Compiere. But actions of those in charge forced us to this end.

20. We do not worry about dilution of ADempiere's brand or loss of investment in the ADempiere name. Look, no FOSS project or even proprietary project in the world remain as a singular long lasting name. All are in transitions and change to different names and makes. Today it can be iDempiere, tomorrow it can be Don Juan.

QUESTION: WILL YOU MEET US FACE TO FACE TO EXPLAIN?
21. I have always wanted to meet everyone. I will always strain to listen to very contrary opinion and then ask for the chance to explain this side. We can also agree to disagree. I seek to maintain high respect for all individuals irrespective of camps or cultures. But so far from most of my visits, the majority agree with one side. You figure out which side.

QUESTION: DO YOU THINK THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT?
22. When iDempiere, the real great future of open components and 3rd party marketplace plugins is finally out, anyone including ADempiere can take it and declare it as ADempiere 4.0 for example. This time the world and the community will know from where that version comes from. Yes, stealing will still occur - as Compiere, Openbravo and many others continue to do so but when well published, the origin and authors will be protected and honoured. Thus future is bright thanks to the rules and promise of GPL. But there will always be abuse and commercial interests. We seen them and now know how to handle them. But heh, what is most important we allow EVERYONE to take it.

23. But when you invest in iDempiere or any FOSS work always take the wise precautions. Participate more intensely. Brand your own service offerings or distros instead of relying on the core project name and do almost nothing. Do not just think of yourself that is making the money. Think also of those who are making the code. Otherwise i will strongly advice you to stick to Compiere, Openbravo or OpenERP or even ADempiere. You cannot have it both ways. Either use it in joy or contribute and have fun.

QUESTION: ARE YOU STILL OPEN TO BE QUESTIONED?
24. Of course. If there is one 'product', signature, trademark, hallmark from me at my red1.org is that you are always free to join/leave, criticise/shout, give/take and meet me. If there is one 'guarantee' from this product is that no important thread be it advertising oneself, as long as it is about FOSS, will ever get deleted. And one more very important guarantee - Information is Free, always, and thus no information hiding has and will occur.

25. You know my consistent principle over all these years - I honor and look up to contributors to call them 'priceless'. So i hope you will be one too.

26. You are free to comment here, or drop me an email if you think that is absolutely necessary to say something in private. My email is red1@red1.org.

red1
(finalised - no more edits. Further announcements will be further down this thread.)
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby globalqss » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:51 pm

Thanks Redhuan for opening this thread - I think we can use it to document how things are going to be organized, so I'll start with some definitions we're making:

- the official tracker system for iDempiere is http://jira.idempiere.com/

- to report issues on the transition version (aka adempiere361 or globalqss361 or CarlosRuiz361 or 361-transition) we will use the same JIRA idempiere site, you just need to fill properly the "Affects Version/s" field when filing a ticket

- anybody interested in sponsoring a wiki server please contact us - we're trying to set up one mediawiki server with full ssh access in order to configure automated backups

- We're planning to conduct weekly meetings on IRC wednesday 13 to 15 GMT planned to start on january 18. These will be informal meetings, open to anybody, full chat published in wiki. If anybody shows up we can work on technical/functional doubts/issues, if nobody appears then I'll do iDempiere work during that time. Please take note that attending those meetings will raise your karma points :-)

Regards,

Carlos Ruiz
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby didiber » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:12 am

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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby tbayen » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:02 am

Thanks for doing this. I understood that this is the right place for me for _every_ issues. Or do I have to decide what belongs to the adempiere tracker and what is specific to globalqss361 or idempiere? The people down there at adempiere want me to make it more complicated than it should... ;-)

wiki server: I have a server where I can give you user access and a mysql database for installing mediawiki. I think I should be able to get the already running apache to deliver mediawiki on an own domain name. Can you CNAME subdomains of idempiere.com or should I choose my own domain name? (If root access is needed I have experiences in doing virtual servers on my home server for my customers too.)

I hope to find the time to take some karma points next week...

Thomas
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby globalqss » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:56 am

Thanks didiber and tbayen for your offer.

The idea is to have a http://wiki.idempiere.com pointing to the provided server.


BTW - a new definition was done today about preferred forums:

functional and technical support for iDempiere and globalqss361 (transition) version here:
http://groups.google.com/group/idempiere

Same functional and technical support in spanish can be asked at
http://groups.google.com/group/idempiere-es

We expect to have technical development discussions at
http://groups.google.com/group/idempiere-dev
Also, this group is set up to get the commit and jenkins notifications, so is like a must for developers to subscribe there.

We want to keep this red1 forums open for informal communications about the project, announcements like this, chit chat, screams, flames, etc.
No message is deleted here, even if is advertising other projects forking us.

About your question:
> I understood that this is the right place for me for _every_ issues.
> Or do I have to decide what belongs to the adempiere tracker and
> what is specific to globalqss361 or idempiere?

Please consider our spaces open for ANY issue - but personally please don't expect me to check if some bug is failing in adempiere, not because I don't want to, but mostly because I have enough trying to maintain globalqss361 and iDempiere, so I cannot cope reviewing problems from other projects. But, I'm very appreciative when people report problems on adempiere, I usually try to check if that problem is also happening here or solved.

Regards,

Carlos Ruiz
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby edwinang » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:09 am

Well,

I have been waiting for this for several weeks already. Finally! Now we can have a home with less fights and poisonous peoples. I am switching from Adempiere to iDempiere starting today! :)

Regards,
Edwin Ang
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby PeanutBlake » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:57 pm

Great Action!
OSGi and manufacturing (Andre Legendre's MFGSCM) will be the key advantages of iDempiere.
Best wishes for iDempiere!

Peanut Blake
from ADempiere Chinese Community
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby mzuniga » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:47 pm

Great News!
We are going to be part of this for sure.

Best Regards,

Marcos Zúñiga
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby red1 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:51 pm

I have finally released our announcement above and will not edit it further so that no one needs to read it again to see if there are any edits. I have just put links to the post so that it is easy to refer to the repos meant there. Any further wordings will be added below this thread. Now, you may ask questions if there still exist any doubts or confusion, so that we can address them. We are open to discussion and questions even flames as this is the forum for it. Ask your toughest question but expect our toughest answer.

We also allow others to translate the Bogota Announcement above to other languages and sites so that to avoid the monopoly of any particular language group onto the community which is largely non-English in thinking nor speaking. If any flames erupt elsewhere we most likely will not interfere and get out of the way. Carlos told me yesterday that we are not great in politics. I agree. :)

Even without making any announcement anywhere, some of you have replied here giving support. Yes, we humbly do welcome such show of support. This gives us incentive and encouragement and wisdom to work harder together.

Thank you, muchas gracias, danke schoen, syukran for allowing us to work together and for the better.


Bogota,
COLOMBIA
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby azzamahmad » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:18 pm

Hi Red1,

I am here again. I will have alot of questions. All of them will be technical not political . :) You might expect very tiny questions from me since I am new to this world. But, I have no other place to ask.

First : How can we start building iDempiere ? I have read here :http://www.banym.de/eclipse/build-the-idempiere-project-using-eclipse-with-buckminster . Imagine that I do not know to install the plugin 'buckminster core'. For novice guys like me , we need more detailed documents how to build iDempiere, How to apply patches & scripts, how to migrate ...etc. I will not feel shy to say that ' I Do do not know' . So, I will ask more and more.

I will be more thankful if I can get more details about OSGI technology . Mainly : Why OSGI ?

I hope I ma not asking a tough question inorder not to receive a tough answer :D

Thanks & Best Regards,

Azzam
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby red1 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:48 pm

(These questions are asked elsewhere so i will move your post away later) Did you google for it? You may hit like http://sourceforge.net/p/freibier/wiki/ ... 20Eclipse/ or my wiki on this which is older so it may be outdated.
But do not worry if you are still stuck. Be patient and wait for someone else to do a better documentation or installer. It is on my TODO list.
Thanks for your interest.
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby collazosc » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:17 pm

One thing missing in is the database installation. To make it easy, take as a basis a clean installation of the database from globalqss_361 (adempiere361) hosted in and apply the following . Sounds complicated but it's better and clean than applying some expdata.dmp files I found somewhere.

Check the internet for good OSGI tutorials. I found the book OSGI in Action very valuable. After reading this material advantages will become clear to you.
---------------------------
Carlos Collazos
---------------------------
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby smartjsp » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:10 am

Just a short message to show our support to Idempiere & 361 transitional version, with a clear panorama for the future of the project now, we will start to organize our contributions and we will glad to be part of the new community model.

Regards,

Pedro Rozo.
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby PeanutBlake » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:30 am

Dear All,

I can do my contribution on iDempiere translation co-operation.
I can set up a branch or new project for iDempiere.
The translation project already running for ADempiere is here:
All I need is the en-US language pack in XML.
I will convert it to .POT template and upload to Launchpad.net.
That is easy :-)

And I see that iDempiere already registered : https://launchpad.net/idempiere

Peanut Blake
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby globalqss » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:51 am

Azzam, I started creating a more detailed document here:
http://www.globalqss.com/wiki/index.php/IDempiere
(meanwhile we got an official wiki for iDempiere)

It tries to explain better the whole process based on my own experience.

Please note that at this moment the server installer is broken complaining about bundles not found, that will be a task to solve in next days.

About "Why OSGi" -> I think that's enoughly explained out there, i.e.: http://www.informit.com/articles/articl ... 9&seqNum=2

For iDempiere OSGi is bringing us (thanks to the exhaustive work from Heng Sin) lot of modularity, pluggability, etc.


Peanut, I don't know how to let you join at launchpad, but if you teach me, I'll do it.

Regards,

Carlos Ruiz
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby PeanutBlake » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:06 pm

Carlos Ruiz

> Peanut, I don't know how to let you join at launchpad, but if you teach me, I'll do it.

You need setup a driver team for https://launchpad.net/idempiere, so other guy can join the project simply by apply to join the driver team.

you can see the driver team I setup for https://launchpad.net/aderp
the team is : https://launchpad.net/~adempiere-transl ... m/+members

Regards,

Peanut Blake
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby azzamahmad » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:09 am

Hi ,

Thanks Red1, Carlos Ruiz.

Carlos : I will on IRC on next Wed 18th Jan. I will have many questions like :

- iDempiere Road Map & Relaeses
- Technical & Funactional Documentaion
- Upgrade from Adempiere 3.6LTS
- Other branches like OpenBravo POS & Fixed Assests( improved by Red1)
- How can I contibute here ?

( In need link for IRC)

Have a Good Day :D

Best Regards,

Azzam
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby globalqss » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:12 am

Peanut, thanks for teaching me that - I set up the iDempiere-team at launchpad and added you there.

Azzam, the IRC link is http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=idempiere

Everybody, the website http://demo.idempiere.com/ is up and running again.

Regards,

Carlos Ruiz
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby collazosc » Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:55 am

Carlos:

I checked demo.idempiere.com using language spanish(CO). How did you make the localization work? When I run idempiere locally and choose spanish, the manufacturing part did not get translated. Did you used the same procedure than in globalqss_361?

Thanks in advance.
---------------------------
Carlos Collazos
---------------------------
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby globalqss » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:37 pm

Hi Carlos, in the demo.idempiere.com is still not integrated the full translation achieved with es_CO, but I made a new seed last week integrating it, so, it's coming, thanks for asking.

On 361 you must install the es_CO language by yourself following the instructions here:
http://www.adempiere.com/LCO_Instruccio ... uaje_es_CO

Regards,

Carlos Ruiz
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby SETSOFTWARE » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:04 am

Ok,

Ready or not there I Go.

well if azzamahmad have a lot of questions, I have tons of questions, but still, I know for sure that new spiral called IDempiere will be better for an active and less political communitty. I'll see you guys tomorrow at 13:00 o'clock.
Javier Pérez Villamizar
SET SOFTWARE
www.setsoftware.net
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby globalqss » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:30 am

Javier - is 13 (1PM) GMT, so is 8AM on Colombia.

Regards,

Carlos Ruiz
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby anhhn » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:04 pm

Too bad I have a company party tonight.
Anyway, congratulation on the decision :)
Regards,
Anh Han
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby tspc » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:03 pm

Sorry, I can't make the meeting, but just wanted to wish you all the best in this new venture.
Best Regards,
Tony
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Re: Future of IDEMPIERE

Postby red1 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:02 am

I have uploaded the IRC chat logs here viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1491 and updated the famous .
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