Organic Anarchy anyone?

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Organic Anarchy anyone?

Postby red1 » Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:52 pm


"'Jimmy Wales once described the Wikipedia community as: “One part anarchy, one part aristocracy, one part democracy, one part monarchy”. Community can be fun, and sometimes slightly dysfunctional, so don’t be too uptight about how that reflects on your brand, or try and over-manage it, or set too many rules and boundaries. Many communities self-regulate very well, so where possible it is better to facilitate than direct, let disagreements and debate happen and only use admin powers as a last resort."

Quote from: ... unity.html

What is Anarchy
To know more about the right meaning of anarchy you may read Anarchy is something that may seem to oppose other forms of cracies such as Democracy or Monarchy. Let's look at Democracy first. How is it doing? Answer: It is getting sexually challenged (avoiding the vulgar F word). Look at the largest democracy in the world, India. Its people are highly unequal, corruption very rife, and cannot even stalk its bigger Asian giant, China which is still a communist state, but organically exploding. And I have not even talked about the Western Hemisphere's other troubled democracies.

Northern Africa and Middle East is busy twitting away revolutions which are chaotic, anarchic, but devastatingly effective in overthrowing suppressive rule. In USA, people come out of the streets to protest and get pepper-sprayed and shunned by government as undesirable. Present Democracy dictates that you may challenge the government but only during elections and you cannot shout at them in between. So does that work for the interest of the people?

Now about Monarchy or we sometimes call it Benevolent Dictatorship is already ranted somewhat here in SourceForge and you can follow its interesting debate among the royalists, republicans and all.

So, let's get back to the bazaar. Well, what better experience to draw from than from Linux and Linus, its arch-dictator himself. Linus hates the SVN structure of committing code calling it stupid and heavily preach the use of GitHub style of circles of trust where he determines the Linux Kernel version and draw from his circle of trusted sources. Others in turn work with that circle and they seem to ring out. But now and then i believe someone would try to break through. That newbie might realised that he is an idiot because Linus can't focus on too much code as Linus is i mean Linux is quite fat compared to before. Linus will kick it back to his trusted delegate for the category of code it falls under and await that trusted source review first. It is both anarchic and dictatorial and also bio-centric - you seem to have your own universe of version and you need not talk to anyone or fight at all. Just 'hg pull' (if you are friendly to windows) from whosoever you like.

In the ADempiere bazaar, my early days preference for self-regulated or organic anarchy was often questioned by its strongest trustee Carlos Ruiz himself. I have a hard time trying to convince him that any structure beyond your skin is bad. Citizenship is bad. Committees are bad. All are burdensome, corruptible, costly and unnecessary.

Today we see the top coder, Low Heng Sin happily coding away in his own Kenai branch with no other committer ala the bio-centric way. I talked to him about it and he seems to say that bio-centric line, "If there is no one in my project, then there is no one to quarrel with". What about peer review of improving your code?
"Just pull mine to yours, take what you want, improve it. Maybe i pull yours back."

That sounds very Linus and also very practical. Firstly there will be no quarrel. There will be bubbles of adhoc discussions and result is always more self coding, drawing from circle of trustees.

Even after he left ADempiere's so called structure of PMC and CC, Heng Sin does not behave any different or we get any lesser. He just code away and contribute it into the open. Today outside the so called project space he does the same and we still take from him. Good peer review still creeps in to his and he seems to benefit from it.

I asked him yesterday in the chatroom, how would he protect thieves who stole his code then. He told me just "say that ADempiere copied alot from iDempiere".

Ok. I will create my own kenai or github branch and start synching away. Or i will stay put in my forum here and build my small circle of friends just like i did on those days. I been benefitting from more serious non distracted work and i see no other way at the moment. Yes the ADempiere project space will suffer from misinformation as to its official versions and code adoption but people will know, Hengsin assured me.

"You can't hide information if this module sucks or you lied. Not for long."

Just like we know who is actually what in the linux distro world - of Debian, Fedora, Centos, Ubuntu and Redhat. Anarchic way of informing things no doubt but in the grand scheme of the Universe, it is actually self-organising, self-emerging and harmonious.

Hm.. i will miss those Don Quixote battles in the bazaar. Perhaps one day i build my pirate ship and with my merry men, and women sail forth to conquer the world, with totally free stack of FOSS - from the OS right to Desktop, and backend virtual ERPs. But first lets grow our amoeba well.


NOTE: Actually you cannot just pull from HengSin directly. His project is still an experimental use of the future looking OSGi framework for ADempiere. Unless of course you are an expert techie like him. Otherwise you should pull from Carlos Ruiz adempiere361 Kenai repo instead. His is the stablest and well maintained and reviewed up-to-date version of ADempiere (more than the official 370 one, but those who follow our history won't be surprised as he maintained ADempiere all the way since birth), but don't take my word for it. Remember, build your own trust. Or you can trust me and form my inner circle.
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Re: Organic Anarchy anyone?

Postby egonzalez » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:50 am

Hi Red1:

I have read your post with great interest. Is very difficult to me to answer this as I'd really like because my very poor english.

First at all I want recommend to you "An Anarchist FAQ" a very good book written by an international work group of social anarchists connected through the internet:

On the other hand it may not be the best example Proudhon for this explanation, and perhaps in this context, is much more interesting Peter Kropotkin and his theory of Mutual Aid: ... ution.html

With regard to the method of organization has several theories Anarchism and have been tested several over time. Perhaps the best laboratory anarchist was the Spanish Civil War about which there is much literature.

Without wishing to extend in a complex issue, the basis of anarchist organization is the cooperative. This kind of organization is in charge of to bring together individuals within their society.

But the way in which conflicts are resolved and develop the society every day is delineated by principles rather than rules and community can adapt to their needs.

But in the macro-organization is better delineated modes and is based on the Federation.

The Federation is a higher instance in which to meet the spokespersons that are not representatives, and this is a fundamental feature.

A spokesman has no delegated power and can not make decisions on behalf of the his community, as opposed to a delegate which, indeed, is delegated certain amount of power. The spokesman then becomes, in the communication channel between the community from which it comes and federated communities.

In the Federation are resolved, usually by consensus, not vote, actions together with the various communities. Communities also can generate some common shares, or exchange goods between them without being required to participate in other communities. The important thing is that any agreement is voluntary and participate only what they agreed to do so, there is nothing like the "dictatorship of the majority" of democracy.

Returning to the spokespersons, once the proposals was discussed in the Federation these return to their communities where the Assembly will discusse proposals and return to the federation with new ones.

I think this type of organization self-organized, communes and federations of communes, would be the most interesting to grow a complex project without the need to impose any kind of authority, allowing the self-organization of individual groups and supporting general actions by consensus .

We have GIT for our communities, our federations have IRC ... we need something more? :-)

Best regards.

Emiliano Gonzalez
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Re: Organic Anarchy anyone?

Postby red1 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:48 pm

Hola Emiliano!
Your English is terrible enough to impress me, what more the content. :) However i am also a pragmatist and realist and are actively using such big ideas solve my small problems in life. I do not have the luxury to read all the time and produce literature solely as i am no paid professor, but a coder that is paid a humble sum and not paid if i do not produce software. The words here from you and me are not paid, but we enjoy reflecting not for the sake of it, but help each other find a better solution :)

I read the words 'mutual helping' from your links which covered the whole thesaurus of the subject. You also touched on a similar meaning 'by consensus'. Indeed the whole benefit of anarchism is that society collectively benefit the most. What strikes me about looking back at an original idea is its simplicity of benefit and a memorable formula of its success. Proudhun's line of 'leave the public on its own only makes it self organised and at its best. Any form of statist control will subjugate society and create evil' (i am paraphrasing as it sticks in my memory and i am not an encyclopedic person quoting word for word but rather get the essence of a meaning and move on with applying it for my own path in life.

Sorry for sounding less dramatic when it comes to the ADempiere project. Yes, to answer your last question, 'what more do we need?' is very sharp, because the answer is sharper, "Nothing Not even PMC/CC or the damn Citizen red-tape".

Open source bazaar is about deriving the best benefit in software development and we can now see how the best person is really not in the same room or the same version. The best updates are kicked out because they are not official. The call of popular revolt is not accepted because it is outside the ballot box. Your words are not considered because they are shouting.

Did you lodge a long report with the police on how you were robbed? Can you go to the process of identifying the perpetrator? Yes, that is the law and process as we know it, but it is only meted out where it fits those in power best, and today people are revolting, against big business, against 1% decision makers and against the system.

You see how i raise a simple question and it takes the authorities ages to even admit that there is a mistake. And that also they slam the case shut tight not wanting to point to the rest of the case. This is cronyism, collective incapacity and evil. It robs us of the best peer review and code versions. When Carlos Ruiz raised everything on one post so that they do not miss any point they shouted back, "Don't shout. It is too much. I have it with you!"

But when i raised it one by one, they say, "Ok case solved (case 1), hurrah! We won. Please accept defeat and shut up. Why raised some more? (2nd case, and so on)." If this is not called inept idiocy, i do not know what it is. Maybe you can suggest me another term. Stupidity?

It is also insulting. Not that i am the founding leader and major contributor to this project that i need respect or attention. I work hard to present cases and make studies out of voluntarism. I did not go to university. I am a rebel with reasons from young. I study and fight for my points - each one, each step. Sometimes i relax and withdraw not because i give up. But because the other side just gave up (refuse to entertain) and expect me to cease fire or else they label me as 'asking for trouble and pushing case (1!, not 2 and so on) or just simply shouting and been dictatorial without offering any reason or facts to back it up.

If they analyse your words they will take it apart with a rhetoric hammer and microscope and look for some bacteria and then parade to the square that i have germs and must be extinguished. You see how they hammer Caros Ruiz that way. And yet Carlos Ruiz remain a faithful trustee of the which acts as a nuclear deterrent here but he did not use it. No matter how 'upset' or 'frustrated' he becomes he won't blow the bomb on them. Even though i told him that we now have moral authority from the popular bazaar. We are just treating the kids with more kindness and understanding. Yet they shouted back, "Don't nanny me".

Mass media and propagandist literature (the sober academic) kept analysing and stating that we need sanity, structure, due process, be politically correct, be acceptable to social norm, but always left out the person in the middle and at the bottom. In the end that person shouts. The govt shouts back saying this are rebels and unwanted elements. The people burns down a police-car. Then the authorities listen. If he keeps quiet, they don't saying they hear nothing. Must this be the way things progress in our society?

This is evil. This is robbing the people to do what they do best - govern themselves and producing the best bread in town, the best curtains for the homes, the best hair-cut, the best road and water system, the best health system, the best transport, and the best mutual help in case of disaster and even full scale war. It is always the people, the farmers, the labourers, the disenchanted youth that fight best. It is not the officials, generals, policemen or soldiers.

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