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From Flames To Fork, Comes Freedom • View topic - Debate - Has Compiere Become Closed? Do We Fork? How?

Debate - Has Compiere Become Closed? Do We Fork? How?

Create your own tidbits here. Drinks on the house. Ash-trays provided.

Postby scott5375 » Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:03 pm

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Postby afalcone » Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:20 pm

Just a comment about Jog's post:

First, I agree with all comments that said Carlos.

I want just remember 2 lessons from "The Cathedral and the Bazaar":

6. Treating your users as co-developers is your least-hassle route to rapid code improvement and effective debugging.
7. Release early. Release often. And listen to your customers.

You can obtain your conclusions......

Adempiere will be a Bazaar.

Regards
Alejandro

When the river sounds is because is running water. :D
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Postby croo » Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:03 pm

wow! I go away for a day and it takes hours of reading to catch up :-) ... things are moving very fast!

red1: My email address is colin.rooney@gmail.com my preferred userid is colin.rooney@adempiere.org

re: Jorgs reply
I'd say some PR types spent a lot of time wording it!
I feel the bottom line has to be: Inv was given plenty of opportunity to provide us with some... any.... information on where they were heading. I'm sure it is no co-incidence they finally provided something only after what has happened here in just a couple of days! Jorg says they had too little resources to integrate “Compiere Freelancers”, well even an email stating that would have been nice ... instead of been completely ignored! And as others pointed out, while he is now saying GPL, he did not address the point of the application being split between a hobbled open app and a commercial app . Given the other “open source” projects the new Inc board members are involved with, I think this rumour of a to split in the application has a lot of potential to be true and should have been addressed by Jorg. The bottom line is the Compiere approach simply isn't working ... the versions released have too many bugs & and too many basic holes in functionality for too a long a time... it's time to try another approach!?

re: wiki
I think StevenK is right that an internal wiki is the place to put the equivalient of user “manuals” [need to replace those we will lose when leaving Compiere] and those technical “know how” manuals compiere never provided in the first place [much of which is in compilo].
But I do think there is still a place for the basic definition of the project, in wikipedia. Reading wikipedia's reasons for rejecting the articles created so, I think perhaps they just want bear facts [which being a “pedia” makes some sense]. I'll have a go at creating a very minimal description to see if I can gets us “in the door” so to speak... then we can extend it slowly. finger crossed! :-)

colin
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Postby mdsahni » Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:16 am

Hi Guys,

Let me introduce myself, I'm Deep and running a small company [Soft Solvers technologies] in Malaysia, providing IT solutions to small and mid size customers. Since last few months we are also offering Compiere as one of our implementation solutions. Initially Compiere looked too good to be true, with great functionality and FREE, but very soon we started seeing the hard realities (migration, pdf, etc) Even after paying $1500, migration is nth next to perfect, you can see my requests pending for weeks.. and on an on!!

Today I wanted to discuss with red about one new compiere project that are hoping to get and saw this discussion and since last three hours reading with huge enthu!! Its really a bold effort and I'm excited to be part of this ... rather proactively!!

During our first [and only] implementation 2.53b, we have fixed many bugs and also have enhanced [or atleast made worked] the Sales Commission modules that we are ready to contribute to Adempiere [I too loved the name, though at first looks bit difficult]. Hopefully can do lot more in future!!

I my early days of struggling with learning Compiere I read lot from Marco, Victor, Trifon, Rob, Peter, and of course Red1, a 180 degree salute to you Gurus!!

Well I've around 10 years of IT experience in designing, developing and implementing business applications and now picking up Compiere [I guess :? ] should be able to contribute. Also with my business growing, I'm planning to hire 1 or 2 more programmers that also can work dedicated on Compiere and I can pledge 10% of their total work time for this project!!

I sincerely wish all the best to all you guys in this endevour!!

Regards,
Deep
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Postby mdsahni » Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:20 am

Well I too have few ideas on functional, architectural and technical enhancements but would like Guru's to take lead and I'll do "After You", maybe once we have wiki's or contributing platforms in place.

Regards,
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About Wiki

Postby globalqss » Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:21 am

Can I suggest PHPWiki? http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/

I only have experience with TWiki (perl), but this excellent program needs access to some operating system resources (as fgrep, rcs) so is difficult to find a cheap ISP for that.

I've read excellent info about PHPWiki, and this site is constructed around PHP.
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Commitment

Postby globalqss » Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:49 am

Hello, I just want to say that looking the Bazaar in action, and all this movement, and all of these new people joining this project, I feel a strong commitment with Adempiere.

I just only hope to be at the height of your expectations (and sure I'll do) and not to defraud the community.

Regards,

Carlos Ruiz
carlos.ruiz@adempiere.org
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Postby afalcone » Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:08 am

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Commitment

Postby goanookie » Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:24 am

Information wants to be free
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Postby red1 » Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:06 am

Welcome Peter,
Its gud if u can start a new thread on say, "Technical Specs Effort" to get the ball(s) rolling, to gather tots and more volunteers. Later when things formalize, then we know who to refer to.

red1
Last edited by red1 on Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Add me to the technical specs team

Postby mhafod » Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:27 am

Hello all,

Please add me to the technical specs team, the one proposed by Red1 and PeterDeZutter.

Thanks for all
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Postby rvergara » Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:08 pm

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Postby red1 » Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:44 pm

Hopefully ppl see that this fork is not a hijack, when it is always revealing. As we all have the chance now to make sure. To be more open than open. All ERP-value knowledge right from its accounting to business process to pre-sales will even be put open by the best minds this industry can offer. No more mystcism, no more priests. Open means allowing the most harshest criticism put forward against us. Open means allowing even our codes to go the other way. Thats the risk of been Open, but it has its merit as Eric said in CatB, that someone gave to him to take over a project that isnt active anymore. Thats accepting that what u did receive in the first place, cannot revert, but kept on.

We will encourage and reward that behaviour by blessing them with branding - i.e.
a)the email@adempiere.org shall be awarded and regulated only among meritous and truly contributive developers and coders, the email@adempiere.com to the business people.
a.2) Award will be by peer voting too.
b) And a list of the names by merit rank published in our sites, open to srutiny and challenge.
c) All business projects be logged for reference like the law journals
d) Those who withhold information will be shun.

The goal is to enrich the many rather than the few. Those who have still dreams of making a market scoop or killing better think hard that there isnt any chance of doing that here. The playing field is going to be leveled and only favours those who absorbed knowledge and shows it.

When one is branded by merit, they gain market recognition of their skills and assets - which is their expensive time.

Perhaps a radical licensing that lock the time factor of ppl into it. i.e. That this time "This codes has warranty, provided that a ranked practitioner is allowed to set it up for you". and "if it fails to warrant against our SLA stds, u can refer to the Adempiere forum for replacement support, and fees accorded to the consultant be channeled where due".

Compiere can then reap back such an aware market, that the pre-sales pitch will be redundant. With more market participation, which isnt forthcoming as can be seen from many who said that this Adempiere project is rekindling their hopes and dreams, Compiere couldnt be happy with the whole pie, as its stagnating when good ppl shuns away.

Bottom most, all admits that Compiere only become a household name among ERP circles because of been Open. And this forum is plainly but harshly that. No friend can tell u harsh stuff. Even if he wants to, u will shut him up.

Like Bill Gates (excuse me but its not who said it, but what is said) once said, words to this effect, "Why sue me?, We didnt stop anyone... any kid... can just with a single idea, make a difference, and we couldnt stop that idea.. Our free IE couldnt stop that" I always suspect that he is correct and that Netscape just missed the boat when Marc didnt want to be open until it was too late.

Open ideas have to be expressed and be expressed and be damn, and are needed as someone must have said that u grasp the future when u get the idea.

This is a friendly fork, so we stand to be corrected.
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Postby mdsahni » Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:47 pm

Hey Guys,

I too have MHO.

Based upon these four things said before:

We'll be a friendly fork
We are ready to offer our work to JJ, if he take some good steps
He's inviting all of us in December for discussion
Power is in Community [otherwise JJ never would have posted anythng]

1. WE target November end for coming out first version of Admpiere [maybe 0.9] that will not have any new feature but only the integration of the work currently done [ComXE, Kompiere, FA, 2Packs, etc] and fixing of most of the bugs reported in SF since last one year [we need to consider and test atleast that many]. This is important to show our strength.

2. Send one ADempiere [lil off track, how bout stressing AD with making A & D Capital in logo] representative to Contributors conference for discussion with JJ and offer two things:

ADempiere 0.9, to be included in Compiere
Dissolving ADempiere initiative and return back and support original Compiere

If he agrees to following demands:

You all know the long list of our demands!!

It might be possible that he won't agrees to us, but since we started with the Friendly Fork concept, we should give him one sincere chance, otherwise, I don't have any doubt on success of ADempiere on it own.

Need your views guys!!

Regards,
Deep
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Postby moyses » Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:57 pm

I have been reading the comments about JJ Message. In my opinion most of the people want to trust JJ, but at the same time they are somewhat skeptical.

I don't have doubts. I don't think anything is going to change, maybe I am too pessimist. The relation between Compiere Inc and the community have deteriorated over the time.

In JJ words:
"To be very clear – there were quite a few changes, but what did NOT change is our commitment to Open Source".

I am affraid that's what put me in a pessimist mood. There won't be many changes as I consider that we need a lot of them.

Personally it feels great to be part of a real community around something, in this case Adempiere. There is a lot of work ahead, but we have just started.

Just like everybody in this forum I recognize JJ work on Compiere, but we have to be honest, we have been ignored most of the time.

Hopefully my message won't be agressive, we have the commitment to be a friendly fork. I am just trying to be sincere and this is just my personal perception.

Long live to Adempiere.

Best Regards
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ADempiere version

Postby globalqss » Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:16 am

Hi, I like the ADempiere proposal, I was thinking on that, strength on the AD could be what we're going to make with XML2AD and AD2XML.

A marketing thing:

I believe we must start with ADempiere 2.5.3b (if we're not changing anything at first)
- then 2.6 if we integrate the AD tools
- and then ADempiere 3.0, 3.1, 3.2 ... and so on when we integrate another modules (Human Resources, Payroll, Fixed Assets, etc...)

Regards,

Carlos Ruiz
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Version to start with

Postby anticareer » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:25 am

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Forking or not forking...

Postby alainpod » Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:45 am

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Is a new implementation not better?

Postby gba » Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:48 am

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Postby scott5375 » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:17 am

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Postby red1 » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:32 am

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partner support

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Postby trifon » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:41 pm

Trifon Trifonov
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